Hi Ken, we are in agreement on some but not all your statements. I agree we need to shorten the campaigns. Labor day to the day before the General Election would suit me. If ranked voting would limit the amount of money wasted on campaigning, I'm in.
The first ten Amendments comprise the Bill of Rights. They were introduced in 1789 together, and all were ratified by 1791. James Madison is credited with authorship. He originally wanted them included in the Constitution but accepted the compromise of inclusion in the first 10.
As to apportionment. I don't think (not factual just my opinion) the early Americans imagined a country of 330 to 350 million citizens. Hence the 30,000 made sense to them. The original 13 States contained approximately 4 million people. Personally I would prefer 250,000 to one apportionment of legislators or even 500,000 to one. The 1 representative for 762,000 is nothing short of ridiculous and I absolutely agree it needs to be changed for the sake of fairness. We already have unfair representation in the Senate, we don't need it in both Houses. Personally I would cap the House of Representatives at 1,000 working from home or meeting in Washington, doesn't matter. Even with that many reaching agreement on any important matter would be both difficult and time consuming.
I am totally confused by your paragraph starting: 'The third through twelfth...' I double checked and the first ten Amendments comprise the Bill of Rights. The 27th Amendment is about altering the compensation of the Legislative Branch.
Your discussion of Territorial Rights is correct. The District of Columbia, however is wholly within the Continental United States of America, unlike the States of Alaska and Hawaii. The native born and naturalized residents of DC, are considered citizens and as such are subject to Federal, Social Security, and Medicare taxes. They even have a representative in Congress. However that Representative has NO vote and no ability to submit legislation. The population in 2020 was 712,000+, larger than two of the 50 States, which naturally enrages the citizens. Their license plates read "Taxation without Representation". Puerto Rico is much closer to mainland USA and should either be cut loose or also welcomed to Statehood along with DC. As to the others - mostly Pacific Islands, they should have a choice of self governance or remaining territories.
Note: The following text is a transcription of the enrolled original of the Joint Resolution of Congress proposing the Bill of Rights, which is on permanent display in the Rotunda at the National Archives Museum. The spelling and punctuation reflects the original.
On September 25, 1789, the First Congress of the United States proposed 12 amendments to the Constitution. The 1789 Joint Resolution of Congress proposing the amendments is on display in the Rotunda in the National Archives Museum. Ten of the proposed 12 amendments were ratified by three-fourths of the state legislatures on December 15, 1791. The ratified Articles (Articles 3–12) constitute the first 10 amendments of the Constitution, or the U.S. Bill of Rights. In 1992, 203 years after it was proposed, Article 2 was ratified as the 27th Amendment to the Constitution. Article 1 was never ratified.
Transcription of the 1789 Joint Resolution of Congress Proposing 12 Amendments to the U.S. Constitution
Congress of the United States begun and held at the City of New-York, on Wednesday the fourth of March, one thousand seven hundred and eighty nine.
THE Conventions of a number of the States, having at the time of their adopting the Constitution, expressed a desire, in order to prevent misconstruction or abuse of its powers, that further declaratory and restrictive clauses should be added: And as extending the ground of public confidence in the Government, will best ensure the beneficent ends of its institution.
RESOLVED by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, two thirds of both Houses concurring, that the following Articles be proposed to the Legislatures of the several States, as amendments to the Constitution of the United States, all, or any of which Articles, when ratified by three fourths of the said Legislatures, to be valid to all intents and purposes, as part of the said Constitution; viz.
ARTICLES in addition to, and Amendment of the Constitution of the United States of America, proposed by Congress, and ratified by the Legislatures of the several States, pursuant to the fifth Article of the original Constitution.
Article the first... After the first enumeration required by the first article of the Constitution, there shall be one Representative for every thirty thousand, until the number shall amount to one hundred, after which the proportion shall be so regulated by Congress, that there shall be not less than one hundred Representatives, nor less than one Representative for every forty thousand persons, until the number of Representatives shall amount to two hundred; after which the proportion shall be so regulated by Congress, that there shall not be less than two hundred Representatives, nor more than one Representative for every fifty thousand persons.
Article the second... No law, varying the compensation for the services of the Senators and Representatives, shall take effect, until an election of Representatives shall have intervened.
Article the third... Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Article the fourth... A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
Article the fifth... No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.
Article the sixth... The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
Article the seventh... No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
Article the eighth... In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.
Article the ninth... In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise re-examined in any Court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.
Article the tenth... Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.
Article the eleventh... The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
Article the twelfth... The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
ATTEST,
Frederick Augustus Muhlenberg, Speaker of the House of Representatives
John Adams, Vice-President of the United States, and President of the Senate
John Beckley, Clerk of the House of Representatives.
I appreciate the history, Ken, but in the real world proposed amendments have a limited time for ratification - which is why the ERA is dead. It was more than 50 years from its introduction. After more than 200 years, what you refer to as amendments two and three are certainly dead. The first 10 ratified Amendments are the Bill of Rights as proposed by Madison. Trying to get new amendments ratified in today's polarized United States of America is next to impossible. Look at the majority population's desire to dispose of the archaic Electoral College. There is a snowball's chance in hell of getting 3/4 of the States to ratify. ERA was a relatively harmless amendment, merely recognizing equality of genders and we couldn't pass that.
Not always true. The original amendments had no end date.. neither did 11 or 12 but they passed rather quickly. the second of the first twelve proposed by the first congress was passed (as the 27th) 237 years after proposed. The first is still able to become an amendment and needs only 2 states I believe. It is only of more recent vintage (20th century) when amendments were proposed with a time limit. The 18th was still proposed under the unlimited doctrine and was initiated originally in 1808. But the original states rescinded their authorization, but eventually became constitutional 110 years later in 1918.
I have a personal focus on deep structural modifications that permanently change life for the better
(e.g., 1. in politics: I have been discussing with Ken Taylor the ability of Congress to use the power given it by the Constitution to mandate that all future Federal elections use Ranked Choice Voting, which destroys the spoiler effect and breaks the power of the Democratic /
Republican Duopoly, and creates space for something the Constitutional Founding Fathers would have aspired to;
and 2. in economics: Economic productivity has always been limited by demographics--specifically, the number of qualified workers available to do the many tasks required. Consequently, productive wealth has usually been limited to growth of a few percentage points annually, and in very unusual circumstances a bit more than ten percent annually. And economics has always been about managing scarcity. This is prelude to saying I do not fear the unemployment that AI and robotics will bring. I welcome it. Obviously the economic circle requires both supply and demand to function. AI and robotics throws away the labor limit on supply--it can grow explosively, but simultaneously, it destroys demand by eliminating wage income. Hence UBI becomes essential in this context. But we have to deal with culture. The religiously conservative may quote Genesis 3:19. "In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread." Let me say directly: We are on the verge of this becoming obsolete. An echo of this sentiment is found in the disparagement of "the dole", and the necessary association of wage labor with meaning in life. A writer and researcher named Adam Dorr distinguishes between toil and work. Toil is what most people (and more generally, animals!) have had to do to "make a living", but work can be refocused on doing what does give meaning to our lives. Economics becomes redefined from management of scarcity to management of abundance. We will need to revisit Abraham Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs.
Your idea of Congress mandating popular referenda on public issues is magnificent, and I will add it to my personal list of productive deep structural changes to be sought. Some details need to be nailed down: Does Congress regard the outcome of the referendum an a legal mandate, like Congress passing a law, (What about a Presidential veto?) or is it merely a recommendation. Who initiates the referendum? Is it only Congress, or does the public have a means of doing do? I'm looking forward to more discussion.
Hi Ken, we are in agreement on some but not all your statements. I agree we need to shorten the campaigns. Labor day to the day before the General Election would suit me. If ranked voting would limit the amount of money wasted on campaigning, I'm in.
The first ten Amendments comprise the Bill of Rights. They were introduced in 1789 together, and all were ratified by 1791. James Madison is credited with authorship. He originally wanted them included in the Constitution but accepted the compromise of inclusion in the first 10.
As to apportionment. I don't think (not factual just my opinion) the early Americans imagined a country of 330 to 350 million citizens. Hence the 30,000 made sense to them. The original 13 States contained approximately 4 million people. Personally I would prefer 250,000 to one apportionment of legislators or even 500,000 to one. The 1 representative for 762,000 is nothing short of ridiculous and I absolutely agree it needs to be changed for the sake of fairness. We already have unfair representation in the Senate, we don't need it in both Houses. Personally I would cap the House of Representatives at 1,000 working from home or meeting in Washington, doesn't matter. Even with that many reaching agreement on any important matter would be both difficult and time consuming.
I am totally confused by your paragraph starting: 'The third through twelfth...' I double checked and the first ten Amendments comprise the Bill of Rights. The 27th Amendment is about altering the compensation of the Legislative Branch.
Your discussion of Territorial Rights is correct. The District of Columbia, however is wholly within the Continental United States of America, unlike the States of Alaska and Hawaii. The native born and naturalized residents of DC, are considered citizens and as such are subject to Federal, Social Security, and Medicare taxes. They even have a representative in Congress. However that Representative has NO vote and no ability to submit legislation. The population in 2020 was 712,000+, larger than two of the 50 States, which naturally enrages the citizens. Their license plates read "Taxation without Representation". Puerto Rico is much closer to mainland USA and should either be cut loose or also welcomed to Statehood along with DC. As to the others - mostly Pacific Islands, they should have a choice of self governance or remaining territories.
The Bill of Rights: A Transcription
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Note: The following text is a transcription of the enrolled original of the Joint Resolution of Congress proposing the Bill of Rights, which is on permanent display in the Rotunda at the National Archives Museum. The spelling and punctuation reflects the original.
On September 25, 1789, the First Congress of the United States proposed 12 amendments to the Constitution. The 1789 Joint Resolution of Congress proposing the amendments is on display in the Rotunda in the National Archives Museum. Ten of the proposed 12 amendments were ratified by three-fourths of the state legislatures on December 15, 1791. The ratified Articles (Articles 3–12) constitute the first 10 amendments of the Constitution, or the U.S. Bill of Rights. In 1992, 203 years after it was proposed, Article 2 was ratified as the 27th Amendment to the Constitution. Article 1 was never ratified.
Transcription of the 1789 Joint Resolution of Congress Proposing 12 Amendments to the U.S. Constitution
Congress of the United States begun and held at the City of New-York, on Wednesday the fourth of March, one thousand seven hundred and eighty nine.
THE Conventions of a number of the States, having at the time of their adopting the Constitution, expressed a desire, in order to prevent misconstruction or abuse of its powers, that further declaratory and restrictive clauses should be added: And as extending the ground of public confidence in the Government, will best ensure the beneficent ends of its institution.
RESOLVED by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, two thirds of both Houses concurring, that the following Articles be proposed to the Legislatures of the several States, as amendments to the Constitution of the United States, all, or any of which Articles, when ratified by three fourths of the said Legislatures, to be valid to all intents and purposes, as part of the said Constitution; viz.
ARTICLES in addition to, and Amendment of the Constitution of the United States of America, proposed by Congress, and ratified by the Legislatures of the several States, pursuant to the fifth Article of the original Constitution.
Article the first... After the first enumeration required by the first article of the Constitution, there shall be one Representative for every thirty thousand, until the number shall amount to one hundred, after which the proportion shall be so regulated by Congress, that there shall be not less than one hundred Representatives, nor less than one Representative for every forty thousand persons, until the number of Representatives shall amount to two hundred; after which the proportion shall be so regulated by Congress, that there shall not be less than two hundred Representatives, nor more than one Representative for every fifty thousand persons.
Article the second... No law, varying the compensation for the services of the Senators and Representatives, shall take effect, until an election of Representatives shall have intervened.
Article the third... Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Article the fourth... A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
Article the fifth... No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.
Article the sixth... The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
Article the seventh... No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
Article the eighth... In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence.
Article the ninth... In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise re-examined in any Court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.
Article the tenth... Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.
Article the eleventh... The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
Article the twelfth... The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
ATTEST,
Frederick Augustus Muhlenberg, Speaker of the House of Representatives
John Adams, Vice-President of the United States, and President of the Senate
John Beckley, Clerk of the House of Representatives.
Sam. A Otis Secretary of the Senate
https://www.archives.gov/founding-docs/bill-of-rights-transcripthttps://teachingamericanhistory.org/resource/themes/amendments-and-states-that-got-away/#:~:text=We%20also%20know%20that%20the,follow%20the%2011%2F14%20requirement.https://constitutioncenter.org/blog/when-congress-passed-the-original-12-amendments-in-the-bill-of-rights
https://www.thoughtco.com/original-bill-of-rights-and-amendments-3322334
https://prologue.blogs.archives.gov/2019/09/25/the-first-amendments-to-the-u-s-constitution/
check again, multiple sources here---all say amendments 3-12 became the bill of rights.
I appreciate the history, Ken, but in the real world proposed amendments have a limited time for ratification - which is why the ERA is dead. It was more than 50 years from its introduction. After more than 200 years, what you refer to as amendments two and three are certainly dead. The first 10 ratified Amendments are the Bill of Rights as proposed by Madison. Trying to get new amendments ratified in today's polarized United States of America is next to impossible. Look at the majority population's desire to dispose of the archaic Electoral College. There is a snowball's chance in hell of getting 3/4 of the States to ratify. ERA was a relatively harmless amendment, merely recognizing equality of genders and we couldn't pass that.
Not always true. The original amendments had no end date.. neither did 11 or 12 but they passed rather quickly. the second of the first twelve proposed by the first congress was passed (as the 27th) 237 years after proposed. The first is still able to become an amendment and needs only 2 states I believe. It is only of more recent vintage (20th century) when amendments were proposed with a time limit. The 18th was still proposed under the unlimited doctrine and was initiated originally in 1808. But the original states rescinded their authorization, but eventually became constitutional 110 years later in 1918.
Thank you for this information
Fay,
I have a personal focus on deep structural modifications that permanently change life for the better
(e.g., 1. in politics: I have been discussing with Ken Taylor the ability of Congress to use the power given it by the Constitution to mandate that all future Federal elections use Ranked Choice Voting, which destroys the spoiler effect and breaks the power of the Democratic /
Republican Duopoly, and creates space for something the Constitutional Founding Fathers would have aspired to;
and 2. in economics: Economic productivity has always been limited by demographics--specifically, the number of qualified workers available to do the many tasks required. Consequently, productive wealth has usually been limited to growth of a few percentage points annually, and in very unusual circumstances a bit more than ten percent annually. And economics has always been about managing scarcity. This is prelude to saying I do not fear the unemployment that AI and robotics will bring. I welcome it. Obviously the economic circle requires both supply and demand to function. AI and robotics throws away the labor limit on supply--it can grow explosively, but simultaneously, it destroys demand by eliminating wage income. Hence UBI becomes essential in this context. But we have to deal with culture. The religiously conservative may quote Genesis 3:19. "In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread." Let me say directly: We are on the verge of this becoming obsolete. An echo of this sentiment is found in the disparagement of "the dole", and the necessary association of wage labor with meaning in life. A writer and researcher named Adam Dorr distinguishes between toil and work. Toil is what most people (and more generally, animals!) have had to do to "make a living", but work can be refocused on doing what does give meaning to our lives. Economics becomes redefined from management of scarcity to management of abundance. We will need to revisit Abraham Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs.
Your idea of Congress mandating popular referenda on public issues is magnificent, and I will add it to my personal list of productive deep structural changes to be sought. Some details need to be nailed down: Does Congress regard the outcome of the referendum an a legal mandate, like Congress passing a law, (What about a Presidential veto?) or is it merely a recommendation. Who initiates the referendum? Is it only Congress, or does the public have a means of doing do? I'm looking forward to more discussion.